Saturday, March 8, 2008

We Regret To Inform...

...That it is unlikely Your Mama will provide a new discussion for the children today. We've got a lot on our plate and people visiting. So hang tight puppies.

134 comments:

Anonymous said...

You go and take a well deserved day off mama. Enjoy your guests and have a good weekend.
I am sure "Girl at the Bar" will provide beverages to keep the kids mellow and happy so they don't get out of line.

lil' gay boy said...

And if not, there's always the wooden spoon.

Take a day off and enjoy, Mama!

Polly said...

Does that mean there's going to be a big cat fight?I hope so.

Anonymous said...

Poop in my panties.

lil' gay boy said...

Anon 8:35

Poop in my panties.

What kind of provocation is that for a cat fight? C'mon, you can do better than that!

Anonymous said...

does anyone know details of 2260 Sunset Plaza - when it was built? for who?

Bigdaddyj said...

Good idea...to pass the time in mama's absence, we could all bring up homes she hasn't discussed yet...I'll start..376 S Hudson Ave in Hancock Park, on the market for $9.25-million...situated a little weirdly on the lot, but I think that's to maximize privacy, since the lot is on the corner but sits above street level...overall, I like it...there's a virtual tour at http://www.dreamhomephoto.com/hudson/mls.htm for those of you who haven't seen it yet...discuss!

Anonymous said...

2260 sunset plaza drive was built for a german industrialist for 45 MM in the 90's

sandpiper said...

Bigdaddy,

i'm trying to start anew with you. But, does this property fit within the confines of Mama's blog? I looked and couldn't associate.

lil' gay boy said...

Bigdadyj,

Thanks for the link; lovely home.

Hate the wall in the entry court, however; seems somehow confining, although it does enclose a nice courtyard; would have liked it better if they handled it with landscaping instead.

The furnishings are a bit too formal for me, but I like the scale of the rooms; the lower; lovely wood ceilings give it a certain horizontal flow that appeals to me.

Pool area is lovely, but again would like to see a little more landscaping for privacy.

A little pricey for just under an acre of land, but overall it should sell; perhaps if they dropped the price to an even $9M.

Anonymous said...

376 S Hudson Ave in Hancock Park

another million dollar bucket

Anonymous said...

Paul Okenfolds place is going for 10 MM, his place is amazing, in the hills, incredible views........

what idiot told this seller to ask for 10 MM for this property ???
376 S Hudson Ave in Hancock Park

Hancock Park realestate is cheap or maybe now was cheap in comparision to the Hollywood Hills, Beverly HIlls, Mailbu, Los Feliz real estate

Anonymous said...

Is this paul allens house ??

http://sunsetlocations.com/location/6832

I was there for a poker game years ago with some college guys that were his kids, or so I was told.....

lil' gay boy said...

He tore down The Enchanted Hill for this?

He should be horsewhipped.

The Hollywood Mayor said...

Take a day off mama - you deserve it!

Don't forget to kick your feet up and relax

Bigdaddyj said...

Sandpiper,

True, not necessarily a "celebrity home", if that's what you're getting at, I just figured LA real estate in general does tend to be a topic on this site, so just figured I'd give everyone something to pass the time discussing while Mama gets some rest...LOL, how about this, what celebrity do you think would be best suited to buy 376 S Hudson Ave, that are known to be looking in the LA area? Would it be a fitting home for Chris O'Donnel & family? Maybe that'll bring it "within the confines" of Mama's realm...

Or, Mike Meyers style...the house at 376 S Hudson Ave is neither celebrity owned or reported to be being purchased by a celebrity, discuss...;-)

Anonymous said...

Bigdaddyj

boring

that shack is a joke move on to another one....

sandpiper said...

BDJ...
I get what you're getting at, and I think it's cool. We can stop if mama starts spanking.

:) [I am really trying here.]

Bigdaddyj said...

Thanks, Sandpiper.

LGB,

I agree, not a huge fan of the decor, but to be cliche for a moment, I like "the bones" of the place...the architecture is vaguely reminiscent of a Palm Beach mansion...

OK, requested to move on and stick with celebrity homes(LOL), I absolutely loooooooooved the place that Lindsey Buckingham had built @ 900 Airole Way in Bel Air, that he sold back in '06 for around $20-million...unfortunately, no good listing pages or pictures remain anywhere that I can find...I loved the house, though (at least at the time) I was astonished he go so much $$$ for it...discuss ;-)

Bigdaddyj said...

I find Oakenfold's place a tad overpriced for its HH east location and how close it is to the Hollywood bowl, but otherwise I like it...(when's the last time something that far east sold for 8 figures?)

LGB - what was "the enchanted hill", I'm not familiar with it (at least by that name)?

Anonymous said...

Excuse me but since when is this blog exclusively celebrity homes?

Most of the London / New York / Palm Beach properties featured here tend not to be owned by celebrities but by wealthy business people & unheard of billionaires ... Yes, when it comes to LA it's mostly celeb homes but if you look back at the archives Mama tends to feature properties of interest that have perhaps generated media coverage due to their price, design, history etc .. not purely because they are owned by a celebrity.

LA Ad Guy said...

anon 1:20 - Paul Allen doesn't have kids and has never been married. That house you showed is butt-ugly. Mama said that Paul Allen has the house next to Paris Latsis's house, which is AMAZING. Someone said that was the old Rock Hudson estate...true? As for 2260 Sunset Plaza, there was always the rumor that Diana Ross lived there, I think that's because it was built by the German Industrialist and her last husband was a rich euro guy....thoughts?

LA Ad Guy said...

BTW, I meant that the Paul Allen house is AMAZING, not the Paris Latsis house...:-)

LA Ad Guy said...

hey bigdaddy, this will help your cause...the Hudson St house is just around the corner from Sean Hayes For Sale house....both in the same price range....a lot more land and house for Hudson then Sean's, but Hudson does need serious updating...

Anonymous said...

which is Paul Allens house ? any picts ? or links ?

caveman said...

mama's days off usually end with the big splintery spoon to the delight of most of us.
i'm already assuming the position.

LA Ad Guy said...

For Paul Allen's house, check out Beverly Crest Drive on MSN maps...it's the huge property on the hair pin curve with a large tennis court down the hill....kinda U shaped with red tile roof...can anyone confirm is this is Paul's?

Anonymous said...

I heard that Pauls place is this one

http://sunsetlocations.com/location/6832

LA Ad Guy said...

yuck..i hope not...that one is god-awful....

Anonymous said...

Well you have not been there, I have it is a palace it had to be the biggest most amazing estate I have ever been to with 180 degree views of LA........

LA Ad Guy said...

ok, i'll give it another chance...what street?

Anonymous said...

davies drive off of benedict canyon

the house is like 40k sqft

it is not on the zillow map

sandpiper said...

C-B,
Give peace a chance!

lil' gay boy said...

Sorry guys, I dozed off for a while . . .

"The Enchanted Hill" was an astonishingly beautiful Wallace Neff house built for Francis Marion & Fred Thomson back in 1921 at the pinnacle of the hill above Benedict Canyon.

Beautiful home with pool house built into the side of the terraced hill, stables and formal gardens, covering 28 acres.

Apparently after being subdivided over the years to death, with only the main house surviving, a neo-Spanish colonial of graceful proportions was all that remained - this is the house he tore down in favor of the current monstrosity that sits on the site of it and the later Rock Hudson house.

Bill said...

Zillow map? Oh god.

TO the person who keeps asking bout Paul Allen's house...Paul Allen does not have any children, so whomever you were playing poker with was lying to you. My records show the big hideous yellow house you keep saying you played poker in belongs to someone named Greenberg.

LA Ad Guy said...

Thanks Bill! I said earlier that Paul doesn't have kids and I don't think that yellow monstrosity is his (sorry, anon 3:28, it may have great views, but it's hideous...all that god-awful wallpaper and paitned walls...ugh). Come on LGB, help me out here, you gotta hate this house too! And again, Mama said that Paul Allen's crib is next door to Paris Latsis on Beverly Crest and there is an AMAZING house next door, much better scale, private, etc...

Anonymous said...

more on this enchanted hill thing please. can you provide a link to some information on that lgb?

The Enchanted Hill is was Hearst called his castle up in San Simeon.

sandpiper said...

What are you guys talking about? Somebody...what's the current topic??? I'm thinking there are a couple things zig-zagging around here right now. :)

lil' gay boy said...

O.K. guys, have to be quick, BGD is waiting for his din-din ;-)

Hearst named his house after the Marion house was built, and it was in Spanish ("La Cuesta Encantada")

Try googling Wallace Neff images or going to Amazon and see if you can look at pg. 92 of the book, "Wallace Neff and the Grand Houses of the Golden State".

As far as that other house, the less said now the better (I'll post later but for now the operative word is SHITEOUS).

Gotta go!

Girl at the bar said...

I've got a full pitcher over here guys.

LA Ad Guy said...

Thanks Girl! I hope it's Patron on the rocks...salt, please!! :-)

Well I never said...

It's boring as dried shit without Mama.

LA Ad Guy said...

Hey "Well I never...", join Girl and I for a Marg on the rocks and we'll liven things up...:-)

Oh there you are said...

No salt please

sandpiper said...

Girl at the bar,

We have a special mission.

"well I never" is terribly uptight. What's your Rx?

Anonymous said...

LGB, LA ad guy, Bill you just chased out the cool folks from the bar

How does it feel to be the only losers left

and LA ad guy and Bill do you quote S*** out of your A**** or do you really do research, so far you 2 sound like F****

morons.

LA Ad Guy said...

anon 6:21 - Bitter, table for one!

And Girl, he's cut off! Damn dude, what's your dealio...chill

Anonymous said...

Never fails when Mama leaves us on our own ....

Thanks for the info, LGB and others who contributed, as opposed to those that just threw boring little tantrums (tantrums are so boring).

polly said...

I knew this would happen when they started drinking.I love this shit.

L said...

I know Polly! Girl ATB, another round please!!

LA Ad Guy said...

"
"
"
"
that was from LA Ad Guy...

Alessandra said...

LA Ad Guy, are you buying rounds?

I'd like a Tanqueray martini with extra olives, please.

lil' gay boy said...

I'm back kiddies - have we been playing nice?

I hope not - that's so yesterday.

Anybody got something interesting architecture-wise? When we last met, we were bemoaning the fate of the the Kayne West cottage, the humongously ugly Fleur de Lys, Cher's little "manse down the road", and just how accurate Zillow is (somewhat akin to pissing in a tornado, I think).

Not to mention some personal favorites that seem to have all been dead ends (let's leave it to Mama to pick 'em.)

Where in God's name did they even come up with the name "Zillow" in the first place? I can't make it connect to real estate in any fashion, not as an anagram, a combination of names, or just something someone pulled out of their ass - anyone know?

lil' gay boy said...

By the way folks, the house that most of you have been identifying as Paul Allen's house is an immense pile of crap.

And I'm going to say it, at the risk of offending all those who are rightly or just overly sensitive since the wildfires this autumn:

Torch it.

pch said...

Several Patron shots later...I hate to belabor the point, but I'm still struggling to understand LGB's utter disdain for Fleur de Lys. The main reason being that the house (though I'd love to see less overall width and a taller second story) is actually prettier than any number of fin de siècle and Jazz Age mansions at Newport or Long Island. Most of the Vanderbilt houses, for instance, are clunk-fests by comparison. I'm honestly perplexed.

If LGB will indulge me: Is there an American house that you consider a fine example of this general style? I'd appreciate the compare/contrast perspective. And I promise I'll let it go.

Bigdaddyj said...

I straddle the fence on "fleur de Lys"...I find the exterior and grounds breathtaking, but the interior is just way too gaudy and over the top (though, I guess I agree with PCH that's accurate if you think of Gilded age mansions it is trying to replicate...). I just think the price is about $40-million too much, but then again, for this type of property's buyer, money is no object, it's just a waiting game for the right billionaire to come along and snatch it up...

lil' gay boy said...

PCH, Bigdaddyj,

You needn't "let it go"; I will always love these estates:

There's a couple of LI estates I'd nominate; first of all, before the widow Field butchered it, the estate "Caumsett",

http://www.caumsettfoundation.org/index.htm

on 1750 acres of land in Lloyd Harbor would qualify; unfortunately, in an effort to stave off the tax man, she demolished the Ballroom/Master Bedroom wing, as well as the servants wing, in the mid 50's to save on taxes, forever destroying the formal Georgian symmetry of an otherwise astonishing 168 room manse/self sustaining farm (although a riding school still operates there).

But what serves as my personal "backyard", being an apartment dweller, is the "Planting Fields Arboretum", 409 acres of bucolic bliss, 165 of them surrounding the main house maintained as formal gardens to this day. Known as "Coe Hall" is an astounding collection of priceless buildings and gardens where are held annual concerts (such as the Mozart Festival) throughout the year (not to mention the Jazz festivals under the stars - unmatchable.)

http://www.plantingfields.org/

Also, of course, is "Old Westbury Gardens"

http://www.oldwestburygardens.org/

. . . site of what I'm sure many will recognize as the location of many a Hollywood movie, as well as numerous print ads.

There are also many private estates to consider, not counting the Hamptons, such as "The Knole" site of the movie, "Reversal Of Fortune", "Salutations", site of both the first and second "Sabrinas", "The Braes", site of "Batman Forever" and "Oheka" the most famous aerial shot of "Citizen Kane's" mansion.

I could go on and on and on and on but it would be tasteless of me to do so; it is implicit that history concentrated such a vast amount of wealth and conspicuous consumption should dump itself upon the shores of Long Island, within commuting distance of Manhattan.

The numbers vary greatly, but somewhere between 2000 and 1400 of these estates where built between 1860 and 1940; a unique conglomeration that exists nowhere else in the US.

Preservationist argue that between 140 and 600 of them remain, most in private hands, crumbling from lack of maintenance; the rest state or federal parks for us to enjoy.

This is my home.

Anonymous said...

I didn't read through all of the comments... but regarding the Allen property: The Wallace Neff designed Fred Thomson and Frances Marion residence was located at the end of Angelo Drive above Benedict Canyon. Allen purchased the home from the estate of the widow of a man who'd made his fortune from various inventions (including the device they use to measure rainfall - so I heard). Anyway, this was their 'winter' residence and during the many decades they owned the property they purchased additional surrounding acreage until the property totalled nearly 100 acres. A friend used to live at a house on Benedict Canyon that his roomate rented from the widow - there was an adjacent dirt road that wound up the hill to the estate. Anyway, Allen purchased the home and spent a good deal of money restoring it. Then he changed his mind and tore it down. Since then, the property has remained vacant (you can check local live, google earth, zillow, etc. - the dirt hilltop is where 'the enchanted hill' house used to be). However, within the past year or so, there has been extensive grading and a new paved roadway following the old dirt road has been constructed. I believe he intends to eventually build a new house. We'll all have to wait and see.
- armchair architectural historian -

lil' gay boy said...

Armchair Architectural Historian,

Still, he can't replace "The Enchanted Hill."

Anonymous said...

Does anyone have some information
on that huge house at bel air rd
across the aka Fresh Prince of Bel Air house. Thanks

Alessandra said...

pch, I'll say that Fleur de Lys is actually growing on me. The exterior is extremely proportional and well-ordered, which is certainly a far cry from a lot of architecture out there.

And actually, compared to Versailles, which I think it is meant to evoke, it is far too restrained in its manner.

I have yet to find an interior shot, so no comments there.

I do stand by my original supposition, which is that the property will not be purchased by an American. We can make wagers if you'd like. I'll bet one of my precious olives.

lil' gay boy said...

Alessandra,

Do search on Fleur de Lys on the website and scroll down - you'll find the 8 posts Mama did of interior and exterior shots of the "mansion".

Alessandra said...

Oh, my virgin eyes! Innocence lost, indeed. The interior, except for the library, is dreadful. I do appreciate the working kitchen, which says very clearly "Staff only". One does not wander down there at 1am for a hot chocolate.

I get what Mrs. Saperstein was attempting to do with the interior, but oh my...she failed on so many levels. A good gay decorator could do wonders. This house, it has no warmth. And the gilded whosits and marble whatsits are not the issue...

Alessandra said...

Oh, and Nancy Daly Riordan wrote a letter to the LA Times RE Section claiming that her Malibu estate was never on the market, never in escrow and never sold. She claims a lot of emotional distress from the whole affair. Discuss!

sandpiper said...

RE: Fleur de Lys...For your navigating ease:

Here's Mama's final post with links to the 8 photo segments.

Even with PCH's good motor court suggestions, the inside still is what it is. Yikes!

lil' gay boy said...

Alessandra,

Sorry, I should have warned you the content was not for the faint of heart nor sensitive eyes.

The "Capability Browning" PCH is suggesting could at best soften the shock upon entering this macabre palace.

yaweh said...

is this all an experiment about the speed of text in a vacuum?

chased out all the cool folks is right.

Girl at the bar said...

It's Sunday morning,anyone for bloody marys?

Alessandra said...

Thanks, Sandpiper and LGB for the directional assists.

sandpiper said...

Girl at the bar...

What a great idea! Yes please.

Anonymous said...

To the person who provided the link regarding Paul Allens house -

Isn't it obvious that's not his house? Why would a multi Billionaire rent out his house for movie/t.v shoots? The website, "Sunset Locations" it's surely obvious that monstrosity isn't his house you dumb ass!

Anonymous said...

Have another drink.

Anonymous said...

Have another drink.

E.J. said...

I believe Paul Allen also owns the old Rock Hudson estate on Beverly Crest. 9402. It's owned by a trust in Seattle, and an L.A. friend told me that Allen owned the house. Also the original Fred Thomson/Frances Marion house is still standing as far as I know, at the top of Angelo. Several buildings on the estate have been torn down and Allen apparently did start to build something above and beyond the old main house, but it's still there... Entrance through the original coach house to the main turnaround. It was originally numbered 1441 but was renumbered to 1363.

E.J. said...

Allen also bought the estate next to 9402 Beverly Crest, at 9412. Forgot to mention that.

sandpiper said...

alessandra,
Back later to "discuss."
:)

pch said...

I always assume interiors will change, so they rarely factor in my assessment of a house's potential.

LGB, thanks for the links and references. Based on your selections, your sweet spot seems to be a brick-faced Georgian/Jacobean/Elizabethan manse. There's an inherent warmth to the materials and sometimes asymmetrical façades. Even Oheka, with its roots in French design, has that steep, romantic roof dotted with dormers. The austere formality of a French hôtel particulier, meanwhile, is naturally cold. And I guess what I'm getting at is that you might tend to object to any house in this style. Is that a possibility?

This house isn't for everyone -- it's definitely not for me -- but I don't think that makes it bad. Et voilà.

Tidal Wave said...

I'll join you "Girl at the Bar".
We almost have another 100 posts. Keep going kids...

Polly said...

i'll be there in a minute,I'm just looking for my wooden spoon.

Polly said...

i'll be there in a minute,I'm just looking for my wooden spoon.

Bigdaddyj said...

MMM...Bloody Marys...don't forget the Mimosas and screwdrivers as well!

Anonymous said...

@ E.J.

I'm not sure where your information comes from, but respectfully, it is incorrect. The addresses you provided are located at the upper end of Angelo, which is a housing development off of Beverly Glen Blvd to the north near Mulholland Dr. If you go to any aerial map website and follow Angelo Dr from Benedict Canyon Dr all the way to the top you will find the now empty land that was once the Fred Thomson/Frances Marion residence (there are four newer houses to the right at the entrance gates and a 'Dutch' revival house with a pool, tennis court and large garage/guest house to the left). As I mentioned in my previous post (3/9/08 3:08 AM - boy I was up late last night!) "...within the past year or so, there has been extensive grading and a new paved roadway following the old dirt road has been constructed. I believe he [Paul Allen] intends to eventually build a new house. We'll all have to wait and see.
- armchair architectural historian -

lil' gay boy said...

PCH,

Oheka, although a rather severe looking French style on the outside, is quite warm and welcoming on the inside (it also happens to be the second largest residence in the US, Biltmore House being the first). The entrance hall is overly formal, but the individual bedrooms and ancillary chambers are a delight to the eye.

When you speak of any house in "this particular style", I assume you're referring to this Sapperstein pile. It does somewhat remind me of "Rosecliff" in Newport, which I love, so I wouldn't say that was the case. I guess that in the end what finally fails to hit the "sweet spot" with this house is that it tries too hard to be what it cannot be; a house of a particular time and place, a Gatsby Era house if you will, when raiding the great castles, châteaux, and schlosses of their centuries old treasures, producing some of the most unique residences all across this country that we'd ever seen, was a byproduct of virtually unlimited wealth. The Sapperstein house admirably tries to reproduce this era but just fails miserably for me; I can't exactly put my finger on it, but I know in my gut, at just a glance, that it doesn't work. Perhaps because its too precise.

There was even a house in Huntington, Ferguson's Castle (they filmed the 1916 version of Romeo & Juliet there) whose dining room was floored with the headstones of children under the age of 5; truly macabre, but that age was able to produce such a design - one could never do that today (nor, I hope, would they want to!)

In the end its not so much any particular style that attracts me as much as how it integrates with the landscape; for example, I'm an incurable Wrightophile, who would howl and scream at any of these houses. Yet I love the way his homes become a part of the land they're sited on, as if they belonged there all along (Fallingwater, Kentuck Knob, Auldbrass Plantation, and the California block houses and the San Francisco Bay Area to mention a few).

So does the Wallace Neff house for Francis Marion still stand or not? And is it on a lot too crowded for it to be seen to its best advantage (when you see an aerial photo of it from the '20s, you can't imagine it being crowded onto a typical suburban lot without it losing some impact along with those sight lines.)

I'll take extra celery salt in my Bloody Mary, please!

Anonymous said...

I love Rosecliff too.Whitmarsh Hall designed by Horace Trumbauer was on the outskirts of Philidelphia. Although palladian in style, it was referred to by some as an "American Versailles"- now sadly demolished. I prefer the exterior to the more franophile mansions. I could never imagine living in such formality.... this site has a ton of info:
http://www.serianni.com/wh0.htm

lil' gay boy said...

Just to kill some time til we reach that 100th post:

An old classic may have been sold at last; the supposedly haunted Woolworth Mansion has been pulled from the Prudential website:

http://weblogs.newsday.com/realestate/blog/2008/02/woolworth_mansion_removed_from.html

Don't let the photo fool you, it's quite compressed. The house is immensely long.

Called Winfield Hall, the original burned in 1919 and this one was built within 9 months on the same footprint with construction going on 24 hours a day with huge klieg lights at night, which people found very suspicious at the time. It cost $9M at that time to build, $2m for the marble staircase in the entry alone.

They found hidden rooms, passageways between rooms, concealed chambers and suggestions that old Frank Woolworth used his nickels and dimes to practice the darker arts of the Egyptians. A sarcophagus he brought back from Egypt has never been found, although the size of the chamber it was found in matches a room under the west porch (which at one point mysteriously disappeared from the construction drawings), and his $100K Egyptian-style mausoleum is the exact same dimensions . . .

Wonderful history for a kid growing up in that area. You can see the main house from Crescent Beach Road, and it was always fun to steal onto the property looking for one of the 3 tunnels that entered the house. (Most of these houses had tunnels to deliver coal to them directly from barges on LI Sound, but Winfield Hall was too far from the water for that, Woolworth having lost his bid on the intervening property to Captain DeLamarr, who built Pembroke right in his view). No one knew why the tunnels were built, and can they only be found on the set of construction drawings on file in the Woolworth Archive in the Woolworth Building in Manhattan.

Pembroke is a whole other story we'll save for another time, but the house next door to it is listed on the Prudential site at $17.5M and overlooks both its own pond and the Sound, and is just across the street from the Braes and Welwyn, which are now the Webb Institute of Naval Architecture and the Nassau County Holocaust museum and Park, respectively.

I love Whitemarsh Hall too, and that website is on my bookmarks taskbar - there's a great book about it, "Images of America; Whitemarsh Hall, The estate of Edward T, Stotesbury", and is filled with construction, aerial, and heyday photos of this lost treasure.

sandpiper said...

Hi Alessandra,
Do you have link or date for Nancy Daly's letter to LA Times? Looked but no luck.
Thanks!

pch said...

Gotcha, LGB.

Frances Marion's Wallace Neff was most certainly torn down. I've seen it with my own eyes. The relevant line in an article from Variety's VLife magazine: "While the new owner doesn't have an industry background, there are ample examples of industryites simply tearing down what was on their land. Among them is Paul Allen, who razed the Wallace Neff estate atop Angelo Drive, which once was the home of screenwriter Frances Marion and actor Fred Thomson."

The building pad is just north of a Dutch-looking place at 1363 Angelo Drive (and a quartet of smaller houses across the street) mentioned by the Armchair Architectural Historian.

Anonymous said...

lil'gay boy,
At 80+ comments, I can see that commenters aren't taking the time to read all of the posts. As a side note, 80+ posts for Momma's post that she's not posting... I'd say we all have way too much time on our hands!
Anyway, please see my previous posts: March 9, 2008 12:06 PM and March 9, 2008 3:09 AM. Also, please go to any aerial photo website and follow Angelo Dr from Benedict Canyon Dr to the top of the hill. As you'll see, the Wallace Neff house for Francis Marion is no longer standing.
Sadly, Neff's house for King Vidor has also had the same fate. It was recently demolished and after extensive work on the grounds, including construction of a large underground parking structure, the current owner has put the property on the market (see the MLS Listing for 9941 Tower Ln in the Beverly Hills Post Office area). I think it is unconscionable for real estate speculators to demolish beautiful historic 'old Hollywood' estates and then walk away. As the saying goes 'there ought to be a law!'
- armchair architectural historian -

Anonymous said...

PCH,
Thank you for the post and link. We must have both pressed send at the same time... how cool is that!
- armchair architectural historian -

sandpiper said...

LGB,
You know I love you like a brother. So please don't take this negatively. You and PCH are rockin' on the FDL debate. How about sub-heads on the longer posts? At a glance, I'm getting very confused. Can't keep it straight. :)

Jaded old queen said...

Haven't been able to keep it straight for decades myself!

lil' gay boy said...

This is short; I'd first read here from PCH that the Marion house was torn down; not knowing the area, I took him at his word, which proves to be correct.

What a shame.

The same Wallace Neff book I have shows an aerial shot of the Vidor estate as well; I can't believe that was torn down too.

Again, what a shame.

Anonymous said...

Re: the Fleur de Lys (FDL) depate
To begin with, the characterizing the house as similar to Versailles isn't appropriate. The exterior reminds me more of late 18th or early 19th century Parisian hotel particuliers or for that matter medium-sized chateaux from the same era. However, there is one glaring problem. French buildings tend to have tall hipped or mansard roofs. The central block of Fleur de Lys has a very low hipped roof that isn't visible from ground level. This makes the side wings and the garage wing with their mansard roofs seem an odd contrast and gives the overall exterior a too horizontal appearance for its French-inspired design. As for the interiors, in my opinion they are relatively accurate in spirit; however, the gilding and frescoes seem so new! Part of the charm of historic French buildings is the patina that comes with age. In my opinion, Fleur de Lys and especially its price suffer from the typical problem of the grandest new homes in Southern California... they are too over-the-top.

Anonymous said...

Sunday greets all!

I just finished reading the myriad postings under this heading and, I have to tell you, I can't think of a better way to wile away a coffee break away from preparing for the arrival of friends for dinner. It's nice to "read" a lively discussion without a lot of crankiness.

Girl at the Bar...what have you been putting in those drinks? Enjoy your day.

Peace
Joel

lil' gay boy said...

Anon 2:14,

I think you may have identified what I found wrong with it at a glance without noticing the particulars - thanks for the clarification.

lil' gay boy said...

Anyone want to venture a guess as to how many staff are required to maintain this place?

For some odd reason, I just can't picture Ms Sapperstein up on a stepladder in the "Gold Room" with a Swiffer swiping away at cobwebs . . .

Alessandra said...

Sorry, Sandpiper, it was in the print edition this morning, and I can't find her letter to the editor in any of the sections online. But basically, she was pissed and acted like it was a huge problem for her...

lil' gay boy said...

Alessandra,

Can you give us a little more detail? Only 2 posts left to 100 . . .

;-)

Old Hag in a house said...

I have a HUGE problem,my bitch daughter!Well you can tell her and that weasel of a lawyer I'm leaving everything to the animal shelter!

lil' gay boy said...

Old Hag in a house:

North Shore Animal League, I hope?

Ta da!

100.

sandpiper said...

Alessandra,
I'm with LGB. A little paraphrasing, pretty please?

Little Buddy and 2:14,
That's it! No consideration was given to the patina of that gold leaf work. I would have been happy to put down my tupperware of left-overs and give my opinion on the leafing samples, had they only asked. Maybe next time. LOL.

Anonymous said...

this is like the ADD Club

I. Willskrewu, Esq. said...

Dear Mrs Old Hag In A House,

I have been retained by your loving family to represent you in your legal matters. I am here to help you, not your daughter so you can trust me. First we need to get you a psychiatric evaluation to establish you have the mental capacity to manage your own affairs. I must ask that you cease to disparage your daughter on public message boards as that does not help our case. My paralegal, Ms. Tiffany Giglejugs will be calling you in the morning.

locked in her basement said...

Esq:

Proceed with caution. Old Hag is reasonably benign, but does have a nasty bite.
Are you due for a tetnus shot? If so i strongly urge you ...
[SP]

Anonymous said...

LGB,
regarding the neff book you have, is there anything on the groucho marx estate he did in the 50s. it didn't really fit in with the rest of his portfolio, but it was a beautiful example of mid-century modern, certainly one the better homes in trousdale. we can now add that to the list of neff homes that are being partially or completely torn down.

Old Hag in a house said...

Off my medication?I'll show you off my medication!
Now get off my property.

Ms. Tiffany Giglejugs said...

OH DEAR Mrs. Old Hag!

No one is going to take your HOUSE! Mr. Willskrewu is a wonderful man! He is really smart. I have never seen someone drop so many pencils off the end of his desk while I'm taking dictation though...but he is just the smartest man I have ever met. He uses big words all the time and has to spell them for me.

So you want to leave all your money to the animal shelter? That is so wonderful. I know Mr. Willskrewu is an animal lover too. He said he is going to spend all his fees from representing you on pussy. I thought he was allergic to cats but that is what he said.

LA Ad Guy said...

RE: Nancy Daly Riordan

LA Times, Real Estate Section, Page K7 Letters

"I was shocked to see my picture in the lead of Hot Property, March 2. My house was never listed on the market and I did not sell it.

This has caused me undue distress and invasion of my privacy, on a natiional and international level. I have been ill, and the last thing I am supposed to endure is any kind of stress. I cannot estimate the damage that has been donw to me and my family.

Since the story was printed, I have received call, emails adn have been sent internet stories that are running internationally. A network television station had it as a teaser for the newscast with a helicopter flying over my property.

I just want it made clear that the house was never offerered for sale in the first place and it never sold.

Nancy Daly Riordan, Malibu

Hmmm...what's up with this? If this is true, how did everyone get it wrong. Property Pimp, you seem to know a lot about Ms. Daly...what's up???

Either way, I hope her health is OK.

Old Hag in a house said...

I've got a gun in my tote and I know how to use it bitch!

Anonymous said...

Corona: Agent raped, stabbed -- while showing a house

There are all manner of weird foreclosure stories out there (mosquitoes, arson, stolen copper, squatters, gangs in vacant houses etc.) but this is the most disturbing story I've heard: "Authorities say a real estate agent was raped and repeatedly stabbed by a man she was showing a vacant home in Corona."

More, from CBS-2 in Los Angeles: "The woman was savagely injured but managed to fight off her attacker and is expected to survive, Corona police said. Police identified the suspect as Shawn David Yates, 33, of Corona. Yates was arrested Friday night on suspicion of torture, kidnapping, strong-arm robbery, assault with intent to rape and false imprisonment. He was held without bail Saturday at Robert Presley Detention Center, Riverside County sheriff's officials said.

"Officers responded to the daylight attack at 10:46 a.m. Friday in the 700 block of Silvestre Court. They found a woman with multiple stab wounds and she was transported to a local hospital."

Alessandra said...

Thank you, LA Ad Guy. I was afraid I'd have to rummage through the recycling bin to find the section, but that is Nancy Daly Riordan's letter in full. She's suffered such trauma!

That story about the Realtor being attacked is horrific but sadly fairly commonplace. There are ways to protect oneself, but nothing is foolproof and if you're with a client who is a criminal, your odds are not great.

LA Ad Guy said...

Aless, my pleasure!

I can't wait to hear what Mama has to say about all of today's going-ons!

I'm just happy to have more daylight at 7 pm!

Tom Thumb said...

Wow. I don't mean this in a snotty way, and to each his own. but I'm just surprised how a few of you seem to have nothing better to do than sit around the comments section of this blog ALL DAY. Literally all day. I know it's cold on the East Coast, but is it that cold?

Hope Mama had a nice couple of days off.

lil' gay boy said...

Anon 4:26,

Yes, there is mention of the Groucho Marx estate in the book I have, although woefully little, just several paragraphs and with only three small photos of the master bedroom, living room and what appears to be the entry court.

It does mention that the family did get a discount by all of them agreeing to be Neff's clients at the same time. Groucho wanted to build by the Thunderbird Country Club, but as they did not accept Jews (?!?) he bought 8 acres opposite the 14th hole of the Tamarisk Country Club, which did accept Jews. Even in the '50s there was still prejudice, huh?

Apparently with the exception of Harpo's house, they were all were of a flat roofed, pinwheel plan, something that Neff did not find as inspiring as the gable-roofed Harpo estate.

As for Nancy Daly Riordan and the recently attacked real estate agent, my heart goes out to them.

And for Tom Thumb, who the fuck are you to criticize the same damn thing you're doing on a lazy Sunday afternoon?

Anonymous said...

"And for Tom Thumb, who the fuck are you to criticize the same damn thing you're doing on a lazy Sunday afternoon?"

Well said LGB, well said.

Anonymous said...

thanks so much LGB, i might have to pick up a copy of the book for myself

Anonymous said...

LB ... Yahoo!

lil' gay boy said...

Anon 8:47,

You can pick it up on Amazon for $27. Best money I ever spent on California architecture (so far - I've got more coming by Cliff May, John Lautner, etc.)

sandpiper said...

Hi 6:39,
That is a wake up call. Too tragic for words. God bless her. My realtor has a dynamite female partner. She shares his comissions but works from the sidelines. She will not show houses alone -- due to a similar experience. What a world we live in.

lil' gay boy said...

Sandpiper,

That is so tragic to hear; that in what should have been the most civilized of centuries, the 21st, that a woman alone can no longer feel safe doing the work she is obviously so good at.

How soul crushing that must be, to fear for your very life just for excelling at your job.

Is this what having money does to us? What ever happened to striving to be the best estate agent, auto mechanic, hardware store clerk, no longer being enough?

No, we have to go for the brass ring, hedge fund manager, bank president, shipping line owner, in order to have a sense of personal worth?

Why all this striving far beyond the reasonable? What is it that's so shameful about being the very best librarian you can be, without society looking down its nose at you as if to say, "Oh, is THAT all you do?"

But God forbid you should rise above your "perceived station" in life; that makes you fair game for violence?

Now I know that terrible things like this have always happened down through the centuries, and that our instant access to knowledge of these events may seem that it is more frequent that it may have been in the past; the sad truth is that man has always been unjust to his fellow man; one just would have hoped with more immediate and endless access to knowledge we would have learned by now to be more civilized, not less.

Bigdaddyj said...

RE: Attacked Realtor

That is why I drag my wife along, usually to her dislike, whenever I tour a potential investment property at night, because in a lot of people's opinion I am a very big and scary looking guy (hence the big in bigdaddyj) and I long ago learned that little female FSBO's & realtors could be intimidated and a little nervous when they had to show me places alone at night...sad, but unfortunately a by-product of these violent times in which we live...and I'm not trying to be mysoginistic or chauvanistic, it's just that the male realtors don't seem to be scared, though maybe they should be as well ;-)

Alessandra said...

Male Realtors should be concerned for their safety, too. There was a spate of robberies a few years ago in the Glendale/SFV area that involved a "team" ganging up on the agent. It was usually a man and a woman or two men and a woman. I think they just took the agent's wallet and car, but it could have escalated. Fun stuff.

So, in the wise words of the desk sarge in Hill Street Blues: "Let's be careful out there."

Tom Thumb said...

LGB:

"And for Tom Thumb, who the fuck are you to criticize the same damn thing you're doing on a lazy Sunday afternoon?"

Why so defensive? I guess you've really taken your good breeding gloves off now.

See dude, actually I wasn't doing the "same damn thing" as you on a lazy Sunday...I made ONE comment yesterday. In the evening, not several and not dozens. Just one.

One you didn't like, but still, just one. So we were def. not doing the same damn thing on a lazy Sunday afternoon.

And to all the rest of you...it was too much commentary for me to read, but real estate agents have to be very careful out there. There are lot's of freaks AND there are lots of people who HATE real estate agents for no good reason which means that in today's world, they are going to have to watch their backs even more closely. Go in pairs.

M.

Anonymous said...

123 posts- over 20 are from LGB- 2 from Tom Thumb.

Hope Mama had a good weekend and will be back soon- then maybe we'll see something thought provoking and interesting to read.

Anonymous said...

Don't tell us that you actually counted them....

Anonymous said...

We don't know how many of "Tom Thumb's" posts are posted as anon or other handles. It is really simple, you either check the "name" button and type in random names, or you check the "anonymous" button.

yaweh said...

this whole posting frenzy was f-r-e-a-k-y

like kids left alone with nothing to do.

folks, i implore you, get out in the great outdoors and leave your real estate demons behind you.

at least sometimes.

yaweh said...

this whole posting frenzy was f-r-e-a-k-y

like kids left alone with nothing to do.

folks, i implore you, get out in the great outdoors and leave your real estate demons behind you.

at least sometimes.

Anonymous said...

5601 Pinewood Rd, Franklin TN

Anonymous said...

lil' gay boy

let's talk about the
Enchanted Hill's legend...
on that 110 acre hill now owned by Paul Allen.
his intensions for phase 2.
always big

Anonymous said...

Armchair Architectural Historian

how are you?

Anonymous said...

RE: ALLEN
If your single and have several
40,000 sq foot "homes"... why not
rent them out?
Paul Allen has a 416foot cruiser
called Octopus..., the launch of Paul Allen's 127m (416ft) "Octopus" secured its number one position as the world's largest yacht....for a few months in 2003.
Want to rent this too?

The Frances Marion "Enchanted Hill" was difficult to build in 1921. (btw- want to read a good book -'Off with there heads')

In 1944, Paul Kollsman bought the Wallace Neff flagship Med-Spanish Revival 20acres and added land to total 110acres. (Between Benedict Canon dr and Beverly Glen) Pickfair was inspired from this house!
Wiki the name and you see he married a countess and it was an Altimeter he invented.
Kollsman's development for 75 homes was denied by the city in the 70's. His main residence was
the Waldorf-Astoria 31st floor...
after he sold a 80 room farm house in East Oyster Bay-Hamptons.

Many old Columbo movies and tv series like Dynasty and Hart to Hart was filmed on location....as
was the 'Rock Hudson' movie on his life in the 90's.

Rupurt Murdock wanted to buy the hill top since he had purchased the Jules Stein - MCA's property on Angelo in the 90's...just below the 1441 Angelo hill top. Both were Neff designs...as is the Brad/Jennny ...madonna...

Allen did level the 10,000 foot
main structure and huge stables
in 1999...two years after buying
the land for a reported $15m in 97'. Down from $40m asking price for 15 years.

now that a road and huge tunnel is built from 2001 Benedict to the
peak ... a new enchanted hill is
to be revealed. the Allen mansion mentioned below off Davies...is not even on the hill top...

50,000 sq ft "side show" ha ha:
http://sunsetlocations.com/location/6832

pettinger said...

I just happen to discover this blog about the Frances Marion "Enchanted Hill" Paul Kollsman estate.

For what it is worth, I worked at this estate while shooting the 1972 movie of the week called "Cool Million". That night we were shooting exteriors only. During the shoot I met Franz, Kollsman's caretaker, and later that evening in his workshop Franz introduced me to Paul Kollsman himself.

His main invention was, as another posted stated, the altimeter (with the Kollsman window).

I visited Franz and Paul on several occasions afterward and had the honor and great pleasure of being a guest in this amazing house. It still stands out as the most impressive estate I have seen.

Anonymous said...

Some information for those of you interested in ‘The Enchanted Hill’
In Early 1923 Francis Marion and Fred Thomson bought 4 acres on Smokey Mountain in Beverley Hills for $1,500 ($375 per acre) and commissioned Wallace Neff to build a home. Neff advised Francis and Fred that more land was required if He was to fulfil all their aspirations for the estate they had envisioned. So Francis and Fred purchased a further 20 adjoining acres a year later for the staggeringly inflated sum of $90,000 ($4,500 per acre)
Fred died tragically on Christmas Eve 1928; He was only 38 years old.
Francis sold ‘The Enchanted Hill’ to Oil Magnate William Barnes and his wife Grace in March 1929 for $540.000.
Sometime in the late 50’s or early 60’s Fred Thomson Jr and his wife Joan came to visit Francis from their home in North Carolina. During their stay they expressed a wish to visit ‘The Enchanted Hill’ so Francis arranged a visit. However whilst the gracious Caretaker took Fred Jr and Joan on a tour of the House Francis chose to stay outside in the Courtyard. When the Caretaker asked if she didn’t want to come into the house if only for a coffee or refreshment, Francis smiled and thanked him but declined ‘This is enough’ was all she said.
(Taken from ‘Without lying down’ Francis Marion and the Powerful Women of Early Hollywood by Cari Beauchamp Pg 162-164, 188-189, 193, 243-244, 302, 369)
I would certainly recommend this book to all interested in Early Hollywood.

Chris Brown.