Tuesday, May 6, 2008

Lord Black of Crossharbour Cashing Out

YOUR MAMAS UPDATE: Although Mister Black's broker once told the Palm Beach Daily News that Mister Black did not want to "sell it or show it at present" there remains a listing for the property online.

SELLER: Conrad Black and Barbara Amiel
LOCATION: S. Ocean Boulevard, Palm Beach, FL
PRICE: Unknown
SIZE: 15,795 square feet, 5 bedrooms and 7 bathrooms
DESCRIPTION: Elegant ocean to lake estate was completely rebuilt for the present owners in Jan 2002. 5 bedroom suites, totally private with views, master suite consisting of 22x17 bedroom, lakefront library, his & her baths & dressing room plus a tower computer room. 7 baths plus fitness center with steam room, sauna and full bath. Formal living room with curved walls, fireplace, ocean to lake views, dining room lakefront with French doors opening to balcony, kitchen with commercial equipment and butler's pantry, two loggias both lake front, one opens to pool deck and pool, other to 2nd floor balcony, 20x18 theater with kitchen.

YOUR MAMA NOTES: Erstwhile Canadian media mogul Conrad Black famously lived phat, spending obscene amounts of money on jewelry, clothing and humongous homes around the world. His wife, noted columnist Barbara Amiel once said of herself in a Vogue magazine profile: "I have an extravagance that knows no bounds." Oh dear.

But oh lawhd children, how far the mighty and filthy stinking rich sometimes fall. The former head of Hollinger International (now the Sun-Times Media Group) is now shacking up in a prison cell at the Coleman Federal Correctional Complex in Orlando, FL. after being convicted in a U.S. court on three counts of mail fraud and one count of obstruction of justice. Uh oh. Mister Conrad, who renounced his Canadian citizenship in a blaze of publicity and was granted a lordship by the Queen of England in 2001, settled into his itty bitty new home in early March of 2008. His sentence is 78 long months, an amount of time our bejeweled abacus tells us is more than six years.

As one might expect in a time of white collar criminal crisis, expenses have to be sliced, diced and hacked away and thanks to Paulina Padlily in Palm Beach Your Mama has learned that Lord and Lady Black have put their large and lavish S. Ocean Boulevard spread on the market with an undisclosed asking price.

According to the Palm Beach tax man, the 2007 taxes alone were $471,082 and given that it's probably costs another million to operate and maintain a monstrous mansion like this, it kinda makes sense that the Blacks would want to be free of that considerable financial obligation. Besides, it appears they won't be using it much for the next five or six years.

Located on a princely parcel that stretches from the Atlantic Ocean to the Intracoastal Waterway, property records reveal that Lord and Lady Black purchased their chunk of Palm Beach paradise way back in July of 1997 for $9,900,000. Listing information indicates that the property was "completely rebuilt" in 2002 and includes 5 bedrooms and 7 bathrooms (records show 5 beds and 9.5 bathrooms and listing information would indicate there are multiple half bathrooms).

Other dee-luxe amenities on the property include his and her powder rooms, perfect for when there are 40 or 400 over for a charity function, a 52-foot swimming pool with an adjacent pool/guest house, a tennis court, also with an adjacent building, an elevator–because apparently really rich Lords and Ladees can't be bothered to walk up a single flight of stairs, a wine closet (natch), staff accommodations (natch, again), a large media room, a kitchen with commercial grade appliances, a master bedroom with his and her baths, private library and a tower computer room, and last but not least, a tunnel under S. Ocean Boulevard for accessing the beach without the indignity of dodging traffic in a boldly printed Lily Pulitzer shift and raffia beach mules.

Your Mama can't tell the children for how much this house is listed, but we can tell you that in 2007, the Palm Beach assessor valued the estate at $27,980,115. We would guess it's listed for between five and ten million smackers over that number, but that is just a damn guess children, so don't anyone report or repeat that like we know what we're talking about, because clearly we do not.

The Lord and Lady Black have long made their primary home in a big house on posh Park Lane Circle in the Bridle Path neighborhood, an area Your Mama has several times heard referred to as the Beverly Hills of Toronto. In 2005, the Blacks sold their New York City digs, a 4,500 square foot co-operative apartment at 635 Park Avenue. Given the relatively modest size of their Park Ave. co-op, the couple also reportedly owned a second smaller apartment in the building where their staff were housed, an impressive real estate luxury to be sure. The sale of 635 Park Avenue was tawdry, complicated and widely reported by all the New York real estate media and gossips and resulted in the Feds seizing $8,900,000 of the proceeds. Uh oh. Also reportedly sold in 2005 was the 11 bedroom townhouse the couple owned in London's coveted Kensington district. That residence was reported to have been sold for around $25,000,000 (US).

We do feel badly for anyone faced with the collapse of their financial house. It's an uglee mess for anyone to have to deal with. However, we also are hard pressed to believe that the Lord and Lady don't have a pile of money in some off-shore account somewhere that will allow them to restart their lavish, but currently on hold lifestyle. We know nothing and make no claim to knowing anything, but it just makes sense because people this rich simply don't sell everything and move into a tract house in some sad development in the Florida panhandle, you know?

150 comments:

StPaulSnowman said...

Jeez....it's costing the poor locals room and board for this weasel. Why could'nt they just take all his money and leave him an old Airstream and a pair of clam-diggers and call it even? I would feel sorry for him if he had to leave a place like Rough Point, but Miami? Heat, humidity and cockroaches you could put a saddle on. It will be interesting to see what the market will bear.

Alessandra said...

Well at least he's not taking a page from Veronica Heart's book. I can admire the proactive "let's dump this colossal money pit now" approach, especially when there's no point in trying to keep up appearances.

But can you imagine Lord and Lady Black settling into a tract home in the Florida panhandle? How delightful would that be to watch?

bentley said...

I would like to beat them both with a stick. She's far too haughty and evil to ever feel shame, but I do hops the minty glares, raised eyebrows and sudden drop in invites to tea sink in in whatever town she currently calls lair.

And him, well, I suppose prison will do to him whatever it will.

They are not good people.

StPaulSnowman said...

I am seeing Joan Collins and Alan Rickman in the docudrama.......................

that girl said...

Apparently Lord & Lady Black never learned the golden rule: pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered.

so_chic_darling said...

Just because he's a Lord doesn't mean he has any class,titles like that are basically bought through large charitable donations.
They probably have at least a hundred million in the Cayman Islands.

Anonymous said...

As a Canadian I don't care how evil the Blacks are, the American government went after him because he isn't one of their own. Of all the white collar criminals, Conrad Black doesn't even make the top 10.

I love this house, way too extravagent but it takes money honey and this place is gorgeous.

And I think Joan Collins and Alan Rickman in the docudrama would be FABULOUS!

Anonymous said...

Mama...

Do you know where Chappelle lives? I know he has a farm in Yellow Springs Ohio but I can't pinpoint the location.

Please help!!

Parker said...

Forget settling into a tract home in the Florida panhandle... move them into PacMan's monstrosity :)

Anonymous said...

"titles like that are basically bought through large charitable donations"

Probably 99% of those titled 'Lord' in the U.K are so through family titles - not donations. Conrad Black is a life peer - which differs from the aristocratic hereditary peers.


"As a Canadian I don't care how evil the Blacks are, the American government went after him because he isn't one of their own."

I'm surprised as a Canadian you're sticking up for him. He renounced his Canadian citizenship & said about Canada, "Canada is turning into a Third World dump run by raving socialists." & also that Canada was "an oppressive little world" - Obviously he was proud of being Canadian!

bentley said...

He was not proud of being Canadian, and he damn well should have been. Instead he opted to hurl himself repeatedly against the English social ladder with his wife clamoring on his shoulders. He became an even bigger pompous ass, his God complex exploded, and now he's in jail.

Girl at the Bar - I'll have a nice cold beer, please.

Anonymous 11:00 AM said...

Anon 2:28,

I stick up for Conrad Black because his negative comments about Canada were said when our former Prime Minister, Jean Chretien, refused to allow Black to accept his peerage in the House of Lords. Chretien did this because his party, the Liberal Party of Canada, had not received positive coverage in Black's newspapers (Black is a Conservative and makes no bones about it). Thus, Chretien chose to get personal on an issue which he really had no business being a part of.

Conrad Black, in previous years, has been very proud to be Canadian. He and Barbara Amiel are residents of Canada and have been active in Canadian high society.

They're greedy, probably rude, maybe even awful but they are hardly the villains they've been depicted as.

that girl said...

Bentley - just to clear things up, I'm not the girl at the bar - but I'll order you a beer along with my gin & tonic. It's been a long day.

average joe said...

Guess I was wrong, the highend markets are finally going to start coming down, the only problem is that there will be no buyer out there to take advantage of the low low prices.

I say we are in this for the next 10 years ?

"The following blog is from LA LAND"

Remember David Lereah? The bullish NAR economist and author of "Why the Real Estate Boom Will Not Bust"? Of course you do. Newsweek has an interesting interview with him here. Money quotes:

"We're not at the bottom ... we're not there yet. The leading indicators are still very bad. Pending home sales are still in bad shape. Mortgage applications are low … There's still supply out there in abundance … This thing is going to get worse before it gets better."

More: ""[I] just didn't realize the scope, the extent, the magnitude of the loose underwriting—not looking at incomes and wages, just providing so many mortgage loans based on [expected] future price appreciation rather than the creditworthiness of the borrower," Lereah says. "That got so out of hand, and none of us realized the magnitude of it until it was too late."

Now, then. That clears everything up, doesn't it? Of course it doesn't. Banks and lenders were throwing mortgages at borrowers like throw beads at a Mardi Gras parade, and the NAR "didn't' realize the magnitude of it"?
Sorry, not buying it.


NO WONDER FL HOMES ARE PRICED AT 40MM and up !!!!

Anonymous said...

F*CK OFF AND GO AWAY AVERAGE HO!

average joe said...

anon 5:33 pm

I was expecting that

can you have a better comeback for me next time ?

now you have to ask your self

HGTV a few years ago was doing shows on homes in the US and they were stunned that homes and estates were going up 500% and now today, the awful truth is finally coming out.

I think conrad blacks place as nice as it is, is only worth 5MM tops in Florida.

I would not be surprised if that is all he gets for it.

this next year is going to be one for the history books, many of the ultra rich are going to end up rich, the rich will go back down to middle class and the poor will get poorer, some of them may even end up in prison.

The head of the NAR now says he did not realize that there were numerous jumbo loans given out based on a persons word / handshake ?

come on now !!!!

I wonder if he is now worried for his freedom ?

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 5:33 either has an anger management problem which can be helped with therapy or medication...

Or they have an option-ARM.

Either way...I'm sure glad I'm not *that* reader.

Must be one of Mamas angry red-headed stepchildren.

Anonymous said...

This is what gets me

My dad bought a 5000 sqft pad with head on city views up on sunset plaza in 1998 for 1MM cash.

His tax bill back then was 15k a year which was reasonable.

his tax bill started to go up 10% a year from 2002 and now is at 70k a year, apparently the comps in his area value his place at 6MM.

he cannot afford 70k a year for property taxes, his income is no where close to that.

He has filed a complaint with the city telling them that his place is not up for sale and he feels his place should only be worth 1.2MM so he should only have to pay 12k a year in property taxes.

His pleas are falling on deaf ears.

Now he has to sell the place, so far no real buyers have come to the table, he also tried to rent it out for 15k a month, no renters have come to the table either.

He tried for the HELOC at a fixed rate but was turned down.

He has no choice but to sell the place or lose it to the city for non payment of property taxes.

I understand that he should be able to sell it, but there are no buyers out there at any price at the moment.

What is going on here ????

Anonymous said...

Average Ho 5:44 -

Once again - F*CK OFF AND GO AWAY

Average Ho as "anon 6:48" -

Nice try but we all know it is still you. You don't have any friends here so...F*CK OFF AND GO AWAY.

Average Ho as "anon 7:42" -

Ok, I'll bite..just to see what lame excuse or story change you come up with -

5000 s.f. for 1mm cash (so no mortgage, right?)

a) California real estate taxes are based on purchase price unless the property is expanded.

b) If your "dad" paid 1 million cash and didn't expand the square footage, his taxes are based on 1 million dollars.

c) Asking for the property to be reassessed at 1.2 million would result in an increase in taxes, not a reduction.

Take you meds.

Anonymous said...

Abg Joe / 7:42

Fuck off already you idiot.

Anonymous said...

Sir I do not know joe

My dads taxes have been assessed on the value of his home which now stands at 6MM assessed value, hence 66k tax bill.

I saw the tax bill.

There was an article in a paper sometime ago on how the city has been basing property taxes on current values of homes that were not up for sale.


Explain that please.

Anonymous said...

I think the initial property taxes are based on sales price but after 10 years ?

Anonymous said...

avg joe, anon

you're a pathetic little putz.

Anonymous said...

anon 9 34

what is your problem ?

why can't you answer the mans question ?

Dr John said...

or the womans question for that matter.

Were you a bully in HS ?

Were you bullied in HS ?

are you mad at the world ?

what is your problem, you can tell us, this is good therapy for you.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:20 - Don't even try. We all know that you are Average Ho as well as anon 9:22 & 9:51.

"My dads taxes have been assessed on the value of his home which now stands at 6MM"

Why was the house reassessed? Remember that you are claiming the house is in California where automatic reassessment doesn't happen.

There are three reasons for a house to be reassessed -

Sale - Taxes are based on new sale price. You buy a house for more than last sale, you will pay more in taxes. You buy for less than last owner, your taxes will be less than theirs.

Expansion - You add on square footage and the house will be reassessed. Generally you will pay more as the addition will add value.

Owner Request - People sometimes request a reassessment if the value has dropped significantly from what they paid. This is in order to save on taxes. No one in their right mind would ask for a reassessment to prove their house has gone UP in value since that is ASKING to pay more taxes.

Anonymous said...

Dr. John = Average Ho too.

Anonymous said...

"My dads taxes have been assessed on the value of his home which now stands at 6MM assessed value, hence 66k tax bill.

I saw the tax bill."

So the bill was for 66k?

Anonymous said...

oops

it is around 135k for the year

$66735.31 is for one bill

and according to the law the tax assessor can assess
yearly if he wants to 50-100% of the homes true value, which I believe is the reason for prop 13, to protect the low income people from such a catastrophe.

My dad is well off but this market is starting to hurt him financially

Anonymous said...

His place was bought for 1MM now the city is telling him it is has been assessed at 6MM and he has to pay tax at that value.

Anonymous said...

Nope. You are completely wrong as usual.

Go run in traffic.

Anonymous said...

What am I wrong about ?

enclosed is an article covering a very small portion of what is going on in parts of LA

It looks like my dad is not the only one getting hosed by the man.

*********************************
Update from the L.A. County Assessor's office: The office is roughly halfway through a review of 316,000 single-family homes and condos for potential decline in value. The review covers homes purchased between July 1, 2004 and June 30, 2007. Numbers:
--186,000 homes have been reviewed.
--Assessed values have been reduced on 89,000 homes.
--Average reduction in assessed value is $68,400.
--Average reduction in property taxes is $684 per house.

Benja said...

A) If your dad paid 1,000,000 CASH for a house in 1998, I would be surprised to find that he can't afford the 100k a year tax bill.

B) If the house is worth 6 Million, there will be buyer if he prices the house at 5. Since he only paid 1mill for it, he's pocketing 4mill and he can buy a home that he can afford. So I'm not sure what the issue is.

c) Acquisition Value Provisions of Prop. 13
Section 2 of Article XIIIA of the California Constitution (enacted by Proposition 13) establishes an acquisition-value assessment system. It provides that property is to be assessed at its value when acquired through a change of ownership or by new construction. Thereafter, the taxable value of property may increase annually by no more than the rate of inflation or two percent, whichever is less.

There are certain exceptions: (A) market value, if lower than acquisition value, establishes value for tax purposes; (B) property transferred to a spouse, between parents and children, etc., is not reassessed; (C) certain other changes of ownership, added to Article XIIIA by voter approval in the years since 1978, do not trigger reassessment, and (D) property assessed by the State Board of Equalization, such as property of state-regulated utilities, is not subject to the acquisition value limitation. (See ITT World Communications v. City and County of San Francisco, 1985.)

Benja said...

No one is being hosed. What you posted states that properties that have decreased in value since purchase have been reassessed and property taxes have been reduced, not increased.

pch said...

What I love about these WTF real estate scenarios is that the person in the story always paid cash for the property. "MM" is always used to represent "million." And they're always in a completely illogical crisis. It's like a motif or something.

Anonymous said...

There is no one out there to buy his home for 5MM, 4MM, or even 3MM, he has already asked around.

I am not saying it is worth 6MM, I am saying that the comps indicate that it is worth that, due to the square footage and the views.

He is getting hosed because the taxes have gone from over 20k a year in 1998 to over 130k a year recently.

He paid cash for the place back then, he was a exec producer at that time and got a large finders fee for getting a project financed, he took the money and ran.

I think he was smart for buying that place.

Anonymous said...

What kind of country screws you for property taxes? oh ..yes..America


Move to a country where this bullshit doesn't happen

Anonymous said...

Yes but in other countries you have to bribe your local officials so that they do not take your land and property by force, at least that is what I have read and heard about from others that now live in LA.


Despite of it's faults, America is still the place to be.

average joe said...

http://bp0.blogger.com/_wFWqWIH-WFU/SCEpSlWLl7I/AAAAAAAAEoU/WEsbIvpIFpk/s1600-h/DavidLereah.jpg

average joe said...

http://tinyurl.com/56fouw

luke220 said...

One doesn't sell a $6 million house by "asking around"

Maybe that is why it hasn't sold?

happy jack said...

Luke220

Don't you get it ?

THERE ARE ZERO BUYERS

for properties like his dads.

they all want a 80% discount now, very few have money or can get loans and the ones that do or can buy want deep deep discounts.

It looks like 1MM homes will go back down to 50k

and 6MM homes will go back down to 1MM or less

The head of the NAR just said yesterday that there is no bottom in site at this time.

A few years ago he wrote a bestseller,

Are You Missing the Real Estate Boom?: The Boom Will Not Bust and Why Property Values Will Continue to Climb Through the End of the Decade - And How to Profit From Them by David Lereah (Hardcover - Feb 22, 2005)

and yesterday he changed his tune, now he admits that real estate is a very very bad investment and he cannot believe the loans that were freely given out over the last 5 years.

He also said that the bottom is no where in sight.

The father needs to convince the city that his home is worth 1MM or less, how he will do that when the comps say otherwise ?

who knows.

sad sad jack said...

It is easy to make fun of others misfortunes when you have not owned anything and very hard to make comments when you have.

I personally feel bad for the dad as I have lost everything over the years and I did buy Lereahs book.

sad sad jack said...

I now rent a small apt, a far cry from how I used to live.

I am joining up in a class lawsuit with thousands of others against those that gave me bad advice from their books seminars.

Anonymous said...

Theres no Property Taxes in New Zealand. Thats properly why CLEVER Americans are buying here.

The market in Beverly Hills etc is about to collapse where mortgages will be > purchase price. Let's bring make the early 1990's so I can stand outside these homes with my cheque book.

Anonymous said...

Who wants to live in F**** New Zealand

there are no jobs out there, poverty is at a high level.

are you high ?

nurse nancy said...

Avg Joe & company,

We're stepping up your meds.

Paranoid schizophrenia is characterized by prominent grandiose delusions and hallucinations that wax and wane across recurrent psychotic episodes. Affected individuals tend to be anxious, frightened, angry, aloof, and argumentative; they may have a superior and patronizing manner and formal or extremely intense interpersonal interactions.

pass the aspirin said...

Wow. I just got a headache reading all this.

lil' gay boy said...

Why does anyone engage him? It's like playing peak-a-boo with an infant - the game never ends.

Big Hetero Man said...

WHY?

Because it is amusing.

Anonymous said...

The taxes on a Los Angeles property last sold 10 years ago for 1 million dollars would be more like $13,500.00, not $135,000.00

Somebody failed math too.

Anonymous said...

I think the children should call out Average Joe and his army of names for the false stories. And should respond with fact.

sandpiper said...

8:07, I'm inclined to respectfully disagree. He's too unstable and already enough of a nucance to egg on and encourage.

Anonymous said...

"THERE ARE ZERO BUYERS"

Really? Then how come there have been 11 sales within 8/10ths of a mile of your beloved 2260 in the past two months, with an average price per s.f. of $722?

Granted, LA comps don't go just by s.f. but using that as a base rate, the "dad's" house shouldn't be a tough sell at 3.5 million, allowing him to pocket quite a bit of profit.

Anonymous said...

PCH,

Another reoccurring theme is the windfall cash "finders fee".

Alessandra said...

It's like performance art. Really crappy performance art done by a mime where the audience, en masse, is instigated to beat the performer to death with their large, over-flowing wallets.

Anonymous said...

anon 7:42/11:31 (aka Average Joe) said -

"on sunset plaza in 1998 for 1MM cash... tax bill back then was 15k a year"

Taxes would have been closer to 10k/year


"his tax bill started to go up 10% a year"

Not in California.


"is at 70k a year"
"it is around 135k for the year"

Which is it? And both are wrong.


"He tried for the HELOC at a fixed rate but was turned down."

To quote one of your own favorite sources (LA Land blog), Even WaMu will open a HELOC for a person with his amount of equity and a credit score over 700. Is your "dad" a complete loser with bad credit?

Parker said...

12:49, I hope and assume that you are not living in America since you seem to loathe it so much. No place is perfect, but the USA is pretty darn good.

Anonymous said...

"[David Lereah] yesterday he changed his tune, now he admits that real estate is a very very bad investment"

Not exactly. The untwisted version of the article, easily verifiable on Newsweek.com -

While he was an economist at NAR, Lereah was also a real estate investor himself, at one point owning 10 condominiums from Virginia to Florida, which he rented out. Today he still owns seven of them, and aside from one that's languishing unrented, the other six are still making money, he says. So even if his forecasting record is mixed, his in-the-trenches investment record appears more solid.

At his new firm he's also looking to cash in on the weak market. He's currently talking with several Wall Street folks about setting up an investment fund that would buy pools of distressed real estate, which it would convert into rentals. "We think there are some very good acquisitions that can be made," he says.

So even if this slump remains far from over, David Lereah still thinks it may be a smart time to buy.

Anonymous said...

Yep...That says real estate is a very very bad investment...If you read it while smoking crack.

The Hollywood Mayor said...

Avg Joe, you my friend have no credibility whatsoever on this site. It is soooo obvious you just posted under 10 different names and are clearly the "son" of this guy who bought a house in Sunset Plaza.

I know which house it is you're refering to.. I've seen it and it's not that spectacular. It's very close to Viewmont and was priced at $5M two years ago and THEN I said they were on crack for asking that much (at least $2M overpiced at that time). The house is ugly, needs to be updated and is very cold...

The home is not on the market anymore and they are shopping it around as a "pocket listing"... I almost fell out of my chair when a guy in my office said he had a pocket listing and it was this place!!

This home is a crumby comparison to what's happening in the market Avg Joe... bad example!! Boooooo!!!!!!

Rafia Beach Mules said...

I've got cash!

Anonymous said...

Would everyone kindly stop encouraging this nut case.

Anonymous said...

did someone mention 2260? Why has this house been on the market for so long? Should it be priced at $7 million?

Anonymous said...

You missed a change -

At 7:42pm - "tax bill back then was 15k a year"

By 12:43am - "because the taxes have gone from over 20k a year in 1998"

Nurse Diesel said...

Come Mr Joe we have to go now,I have a car waiting outside to take you to our state of the art facility Shady Winds,oh and yes your dad has to go too.What's in that paper bag?A hundred grand in cash!I'll take that it should just about cover all our fees and your medication.

are you really that stupic ? said...

anon

7:39 AM

taxes on a 1MM home are a little over 25k


now that the home is assessed at 6MM they are a little over 135k

this why many have to leave after 10 years, their taxes are to high for them to afford.

end off story

Anonymous said...

It is not on viewmont

I am curious, how many sales happened in the last 2 weeks ? in what price range ?

also again

in 1998 the tax bill was for a little over 2% of the sold price

in 2008 the tax bill is for a litte over 2% of the assessed price of 6 million.

The HELOC's from what I understand now are very very very hard to get from 2 weeks ago.

The banks are waiting for the market to settle down.

Sorry I am not average joe.

Thank you for you help and advice, my dad has hired an attorney to help him with this mess.

sorry about the inaccurate information earlier, these are all estimates.

The only thing I saw was the tax bill the rest is a rough estimate.

I hope I can get input from those that have had this happen to them.

Anonymous said...

Anon 1:01PM you ARE average joe... stop with the split personalities! Also, I didn't say the house was on Viewmont, I said it was near.

Taxes DO NOT go up unless, as was said before, you do something to have them re-assessed in LA (add sq footage/ refi etc).

THEY DO NOT GO UP OVER TIME OTHERWISE. That would mean your "dad's" taxes would be the same as when he bought it...

I know DOZENS of people that bought their homes a while ago and their houses are worth millions more now and their taxes have not gone up!!

Why do you think they have a tax exemption law for elderly people to buy homes of equal to less value of what they sell their homes for??? Because they've paid such low taxes over the past 40 years... FOR EXAMPLE: THEIR TAXES DIDN'T GO UP.

Stop with the bullshit. You are completely lying and/or wrong about your situation

sandpiper said...

I'm going on a virtual vacation. Peace to my friends.

Anonymous said...

Average Joe...

could you please keep your crisis comments to housing panic?

Bitchy, spoiled women...

could you please take your Midol before posting?

pissed off jack said...

Anonymous

130 pm

you are full of S^^^^ and a ignoramus

stop talking out of your A^^^^^

you are telling me that a person who bought a place 20 years ago for 1MM still pays the same property tax today of only 24k a year ?

sorry my friend but you are WRONG !!!!!!!!!

go and do your research !!!!!!

it is ironic that values went up 1500% and property taxes went up 150% in the last 10 years

HA !!!!!!!

pissed off jack said...

And I quote


"I know DOZENS of people that bought their homes a while ago and their houses are worth millions more now and their taxes have not gone up!!"


You lie lie lie lie lie !!!!!

Stop it with the lies.

Anonymous said...

You should change it to

"I know DOZENS of people that bought their trailer park homes a while ago and their houses are worth thousands more now and their taxes have not gone up!!"

Now that I would believe.

Now I personally know and have friends that have been complaining that in the last 5 years all of their property taxes have gone up.

They own homes that were bought for over 3MM in the late 90's and recently their values have doubled and tripled quadrupled and they have to pay higher taxes.

It is a fact of life

The home you own if you want to keep it should be worth a 10th of what you are worth.

Benja said...

This is hilarious.

A) There are 19 houses in Area 3 that are in escrow/have accepted offers. 9 out of the 19 are priced between 600k-1 million. The rest are above. 4 of the 19 are priced at 3+ million.

To say that no one has money to buy these expensive homes is stupid. And don't try to tell me that these will all fall out of escrow because I can say with 99.9% certainty that all of the offers were submitted with prequals.

B) You still don't seem to understand that in the state of California, the most your father's property tax would go up would be 2% PER YEAR!!!! Based on your "story," his taxes should be no higher than $10,000 +~200(10). There is NO WAY that his property taxes have risen to the number you claim. CANT YOU READ??????????? PROPERTY TAXES DO NOT GO UP SIMPLY BECAUSE THE VALUE GOES UP!!! READ PROP 13.

Anonymous said...

pissed off jack (average joe)

Go get the California tax code. Or consult one of those lawyers you claim to have on retainer.

Here is how it works in California (and you can verify this online so don't come back with a stupid answer) -

California real estate taxes are between 1% and 1.06% of the sale price. So your million dollar sale had state taxes around $10,500.00/year in 1998.

Each year, the county assessor CAN increase the assessed value of your house but there is a limit of a MAXIMUM increase of 2% per year. That is a MAXIMUM. They don't do the MAXIMUM every year.

So assuming your "dad's" house was 1 million in 1998, no expansion of the square footage, and did have the MAXIMUM increase of 2% each year (which it didn't), his assessed value in 2008 is 1,195,093.00.

Again assume the worst case scenario of a tax rate of 1.06%, his taxes for 2008 will be 12,667.98.

Now go away.

Benja said...

Again, since I think you might need it twice:


"Proposition 13, officially titled the "People's Initiative to Limit Property Taxation," was a ballot initiative to amend the constitution of the state of California. The initiative was enacted by the voters of California on June 6, 1978. It would eventually be upheld as constitutional by the United States Supreme Court in the case of Nordlinger v. Hahn, 505 U.S. 1 (1992). Proposition 13 is embodied in Article 13A of the California Constitution.

"The most significant portion of the act is the first paragraph, which """"capped""""" real estate taxes:
“ SECTION 1. (a) The MAXIMUM amount of any ad valorem tax on real property shall not exceed One percent (1%) of the full cash value of such property. The one percent (1%) tax to be collected by the counties and apportioned according to law to the districts within the counties.

-----------This "assessed value," however, may only be increased by a maximum of 2% per year, until and unless the property is resold-------------------

Anonymous said...

Excuse me I meant to say a 10th of your net worth.

As far as ownership goes, if you are liquid

1MM get a 100k place
5MM get a 500k place
10MM get a 1MM place
100MM get a 10MM place
300MM get a 30MM place

That seems to be the pattern that the wealthy follow when they buy so that they can stay in their place for decades to come and not have to resort to putting themselves into a financial crisis when a bad storm comes along.

Anonymous said...

Well Benja

Tell that to the tax man

Tell that to the thousands of homeowners that are forced to sell their homes because they cannot afford the property taxes anymore.

I think you are way off here buddy.

The bill is around 66k for the first half of the year.

The total bill is for a little over 2%

I think the rules you are talking about only apply to the poor, not the rich.

sorry buddy.

Anonymous said...

Benja I beg to differ, nothing is selling right now at the asking or near asking prices in LA.

Escrow means S^^^^^^

I have been a real estate broker and I can tell you about hundreds of deals that never happened because the escrows fell out.

How many sales have happened in the sunset plaza area in the last 2 weeks ?

This all changed as of 2 weeks ago my friend.

average joe said...

Benja I think all of your comments apply to the middle class and the low income families.

average joe said...

Again this was my former leader


http://tinyurl.com/56fouw

Benja said...

Uh, Prop 13 (what I posted) has been embodied into the California Constitution, which last I checked, is for everybody, not just the poor. Lol.
And buddy, you're going to wish you didn't ask me this. But from April 1, 2008 till today, 27 homes have been sold in AREA 3 (Sunset Strip Hills)

average joe said...

Gotta love this

FBI forms subprime task force
U.S. Attorney's office targets lenders and Wall Street to investigate possible fraud in subprime lending mess.

I think values are really going to come down now as many of the ultra rich and the rich are going to lose their homes and have fire sales, you see the FBI is part of the middle class, and they are PISSED !!!!!!!!!!!

Hou would you like to go out there and fight day after day risking your life everyday only to see your net worth plummet by 30% and most of it was in your home ?

average joe said...

Come to think of it many of those that protect and serve are in the middle class category.

That is something that the rich, ultra rich overlooked when they tried to pull a fast one on the US.

If wall street is indicted it is all over.

Benja said...

Here's a list since April 23 and the selling price.

7039 Senalda Rd - 1,750,000
8530 Hedges Pl - 5,550,000
7550 Mulholland Dr - 2,910,000
6987 Los Tilos Rd - 3,840,000
2501 Apollo Dr - 1,485,000
2019 Stanley Hills Dr - 576,950
3343 Adina Dr - 1,226,000
8650 Hollywood Blvd - 1,950,000
8704 Hollywood Hills Rd - 1,349,000
7067 La Presa Dr - 1,585,000
1450 Belfast Dr - 4,250,000
1616 N Orange Grove Ave - 1,640,000

Looks like the market for this area is great!

Anonymous said...

The FBI investigates fraud. That is their job. They aren't doing it because they are "pissed" at the downturn in the market.

Nice attempt to change the subject since you have been exposed for your lies.

GO AWAY!

lil' gay boy said...

For the love of God, stop encouraging him . . .

jimbo said...

pissed off jack. maybe you should read what Warren Buffet things about CA property taxes. here is a quote from the OC Register.

Buffett cited the inequity of property taxes he pays on his homes in Omaha, Neb., and Laguna Beach, Calif., and said the California cap on property taxes imposed by Prop. 13 "makes no sense."

His $500,000 house in Omaha has a tax bill of $14,401. His $4 million house in Laguna Beach has a tax bill of $2,264. The taxes on his Omaha home increased $1,920 this year, compared with $23 on the Laguna Beach home, he said.

I don't think Mr. Buffet is poor.

jimbo said...

I forgot to mention Mr. Buffett purchased the Laguna Beach house in 1972.

Benja said...

OMG look at this too!!!


Here are homes sold in Beverly Hills (area 1) since April 23, 2008 and their selling prices...

516 N Hillcrest Rd - 3,800,000
703 N Beverly Dr - 8,575,000
1709 Angelo Dr - 4,062,500
205 S La Peer Dr - 1,400,000
725 N Roxbury Dr - 6,000,000
315 N Wetherly Dr - 1,610,000


Look at these numbers! Clearly people have money to buy million dollar homes.

Benja said...

Great reference Jimbo... here is an article for Anon/Average Jack/whateverthehellhisnameis referencing that...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/08/16/MN263845.DTL

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/8/18/155747.shtml

Anonymous said...

Benja

WHERES THE PROOF ?

THAT IS NOT PROOF

Links ?????

sad sad jack said...

I actually believe that individual agents, and their peers are getting hurt by this downturn in the pocket book like the rest of us

I already took a 2MM hit this year in the market, I wonder if I can write that off on a 200k a year salary ????

NOT !!!!!!!

I use to be a multi millionaire, and now I am not even a millionaire.

paper money is bs money, cyber money is bs money, it all evaporates into cyberspace.

sad sad jack said...

it all evaporates into cyberspace in the end.

What a sucker I was and I do admit that.

hey Benja

please post real proof, I have heard that the sales have been pretty dry in the sunset plaza area for the last month, the owners will not come down that far on their prices.

Hey Benja are you a real estate agent ? or a broker ?

average joe said...

This is a classic a MUST READ LOL

The Las Vegas housing-market crash represents a turnaround since 2003, when the local economy and real estate were booming.

``If you had anything on the ball, you could make it happen in Vegas,'' said real estate agent Donna Marie Gold, 62, who built a $4.5 million fortune buying and selling properties over six years.

After failing to complete a single sale last year, Gold said she fell $22,000 short each month on payments needed to maintain 14 properties. Now two to four months behind on some mortgage payments, she's lost access to a $250,000 Wells Fargo & Co. equity credit line.

`New York Minute'

``The whole thing was upside down in a New York minute,'' Gold said. ``There needs to be some forgiveness in this climate with regards to credit and rebuilding one's credit.''

How can you go from 200k to 4.5MM net worth back down to zero in 6 years ?

The RE industry is worse than the casinos, at least when you lose at the casinos, it happens instantly, you can cry and rebuild again !!!!!

Now I think that RE market will be down for at least 20 years, there is no trust with the banks anymore, they are worse than loan sharks.

Benja said...

I posted the addresses for all the homes listed. You can Google them and see for yourself on Trulia/public records.

average joe said...

Link

http://tinyurl.com/6892wn


Now what I do not understand is that if one has an excellent credit score, why would they go with a ghetto lender like country wide, that loans money at very high interest rates to potential dead beats and illegals ?

StPaulSnowman said...

Is this a record for the number of (angry) comments on a single listing? I wish there were that many for the wonderful Brooklyn house. It was really great to hear how happy all the chilun sounded.

Anonymous said...

StPaulSnowman

We are in a blog fight

go away !!!!!!

oye Benza

not 100% of your facts check out mate !!!!!

Benja said...

Try me. I dare you. What is not checking out? You've been wrong every time so far.

Anonymous said...

2501 Apollo Dr - 1,485,000

christian said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Benja said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
jimbo said...

From the LA County Assessor's office

2501 APOLLO DR
Assessor's Parcel Number: 5569-023-025
Transaction Date: 04/15/2008
Sale Price: $1,485,000.00

Benja said...

That is when the property was assessed.

Here is the info from the MLS which records when the home was SOLD.

LP: $1,495,000 DOM: 124 SP: $1,485,000 SSP: OLP: $1,695,000
LD: 11/26/2007 CD: 03/27/2008 SD: 04/30/2008 WD:

Here is the information for when the loan recorded:


Recording Date 04/30/2008 Document # 08-0758493 BK-PG -
Price $1,485,000 Document Type Grant Deed
First TD $965,000 Type of Sale Full-Computed from Transfer Tax
Mortgage Doc # 08-0758494 Interest Rate
Lender Name BANK OF AMERICA NA Buyer Vesting Joint Tenancy
Buyer Name ;
Seller Name
Legal Description : Lot: A Map Ref: PM LA298 PG2 PG15 City/Muni/Twp: LOS ANGELES

Benja said...

Notice that there is both a CLOSING date and a SELLING date.

I'm sure you knew that though...

Anonymous said...

You know what, let me rephrase that

How many homes in the upper sunset plaza area, cole crest drive, blue heights, appian way, viewmont ? have gone into escrow in the last 2 weeks ?

the last week ?

My dads house is in that area, the comps are within a 2 miles of his place.

If there are any currently in escrow, list those please.


Now I take it that you are a real estate agent or a broker with agents you is that the case ?

StPaulSnowman said...

Why not take your little blog fight to the trailer park we left a few days ago? The Ripple and Salems are plentiful there. If you keep your brawling here, you might wake up Brooke Astor!

Anonymous said...

Avg joe & Benja,

As LGB would say, "get a room."

Anonymous said...

Holy Crap!

You guys posted 18 sales disputing Average Joe's lies

Challenge him to find errors

He finds *one* that he says isn't right and even that was a lie??

Average Joe, we hereby dub you King of The Idiots.

Anonymous said...

Uh a

03/27/2008 CD is not 2 weeks ago

I asked what was sold 2 weeks ago, everything has dramatically changed in the last 2 weeks, my dad was talking to me about this a few days ago.

average joe said...

huh ?????

Anonymous said...

"You know what, let me rephrase that"

Backed into a corner, Average Joe (as one of his many aliases) resorts to a tried and true attempt at changing his story.

GO AWAY

average joe said...

anon 6 21

You sound like a loony

maybe you need to check yourself in to your local institution ?

Anonymous said...

What is it about Palm Beach compared to elsewhere in Florida? A house sold for $77M recently. That suggests at least 10 million an acre. Aren't there other pretty places in FL?

lil' gay boy said...

Please, people, stop now.

He won't continue if you don't.

Average Ho, just go away - this is not about YOU.

average joe said...

Anonymous said...

What is it about Palm Beach compared to elsewhere in Florida? A house sold for $77M recently. That suggests at least 10 million an acre. Aren't there other pretty places in FL?


What is your question ?

happy jack said...

Anon 716

that sale like many others in the last 5 years are anomalies.

Can you say roll backs ?

I think the next 5 years will be full of them.

Anonymous said...

LGB

what do you care ?

at least these comments are far more interesting to read than your retarded comments about wall paper, styles, furniture

yawn

lil' gay boy said...

Anon 8:24,

Then why are you here?

Lickety Split said...

Anon 8:24

In case you haven't noticed, this blog is actually ABOUT wallpaper, styles and furniture and not the state of the economy or the real estate market.

So why are you here?

StPaulSnowman said...

There will be comprehensive courses in statistics and economics for those NOT interested in wallpaper, style and furniture. I will be leafing through the William Morris designs in the Sanderson catelog.

Anonymous said...

Have you noticed that the divorce, homicide and suicide rate has gone up this last year ?

I wonder if that had anything to do with the RE market ?

NOT !!!!!!!!

sad sad jack said...

uh oh

now I want to cry

http://tinyurl.com/4yydab

Benja said...

This the last post I'm going to make here because I, along with many others, have more than made our point.

So you want homes in area 3 that have gone into escrow/are in escrow/are going into escrow in the past two weeks? Gotcha, here they come!

1302 Collingwood Pl
1840 Laurel Canyon Blvd
1724 Viewmont
2512 Zorada Dr
8636 Allenwood Rd
2001 Cyprean Dr
7276 Woodrow Willson
2823 Oak Point Dr
2431 Apollo Dr
2125 Upper Kress St
8738 Wonderland Ave
1426 Queens Rd
8237 Hollywood Blvd

Two of those are priced at 5,000,000+

One is priced at 3,000,000+

Two are priced at 2,000,000+

Five are priced at 1,000,000+

Three are below 1,000,000

Anonymous said...

"I wonder if that had anything to do with the RE market?"

No, I'm certain it has to do with people having to read your idiotic made up scenarios.

GO AWAY!

Anonymous said...

"I have been a real estate broker"

HOLD THE PRESSES! You were a real estate BROKER??

A RE broker with no clue to RE tax rates?

A RE broker whose father tries to sell a 6 million dollar house by "asking around"?

A RE broker who is surprised it takes longer than 2 weeks to sell a multimillion dollar property?

Yeah..Sure..And if anyone buys that story, I have a nice red bridge to sell you cheap.

Ed from westwood said...

This has to be the most entertaining blog I have read so far.

No one knows what will happen in the next 6 months, a year, or even 5 years but I am sure it will be ones for the history books and it will be interesting to see if the new owners can make the previous sellers give them back a huge portion of the money that was in the inflated prices to begin with.

Now that it is coming out that fraud it the real culprit that has pushed the prices to unprecedented levels.

Now no one really knows what a home is worth these days.

I am sure many lawsuits will be filed by the ultra rich against the ultra rich in the months and years to come.

If the poor and middle class are just mailing in the keys and walking away, what is to prevent a Harry Gold from suing a Jim Diamond and getting 18MM back on a 22MM estate Harry just got ?

And yes the unfortunate now broke realtor's are going to be put in the middle of the disputes.

Time will tell but I can say that talk of that is already starting in the social circles at the yacht clubs and country clubs where I frequent at in LA.

If the prices drop 50-80% like the media says it will in the prime parts of LA, there will be no shortage of lawsuits for years to come.

Anonymous said...

Why is there hardly any trees in sunset strip area compared to the ridges/canyons of beverly hills?

Anonymous said...

Because joe/ed/bob/sam/tom/harry/DICK is cutting them down to burn in the 55 gallon drum he and the rest of the bums stand around to keep warm.

average joe said...

Because of the major storms uprooted them in the past few years ? that would be my guess.

average joe said...

Let me be specific, the sunset strip area has weak top soil due to over building in the area.

The ridges and canyons of BH and Bel Air areas have been under built hence more trees equals stronger soil to hold them down during the worst of the storms.

That would be my guess.

Fibber McGee said...

Only in America do Kobe,O.J. & Blake go free, while petty vindictiveness results ib Black being imprisoned.Say what you want about the snobbishness & opulent lifestyle of this couple, but the fact is he is a brilliant man who has written many widely read books on historical figures, ^ she us a renowned writer on ger own.
He was railroaded in the States, whereas he would have been reprimanded in Canada.
Why did Bush's brother not be imprisoned for the savings & loan scandal??

average joe said...

uh oh

the real crazies are coming out to chat with us

go away mr crazy

StPaulSnowman said...

135 comments and counting!........ but also degenerating!

Anonymous said...

Whats the best way to get rid of Beverly Hills? besides a atomic bomb?

I find the place tacky and living in the side streets very dirty.

Anonymous said...

stpaulsnowman, How much you wanna bet the majority of those are "avearage joe" talking to himself? His "ed from westwood" days are probably from before you got here but the elder children remember that alias.

average joe said...

OKAY THEN !!!!!!!!

I am off to NY, about to get on the jet in van nuys, will be chatting with all of you real soon.

average joe said...

and anon 7 22 am

were you picked on by others, you sure sound like one that has been bullied all uf his, her life


I'm just sayin

Anonymous said...

average joe - is that you in seat 5D with the long legged blonde in 5B?

Anonymous said...

average joe, is that you in post 7:23, 7:26, 8:02?

Just saying.. Oh..and I see you are going to post on Mama's new topic as "ed" so we will believe you are "traveling"

ROTFL.

Anonymous said...

off to new york also means he is running away from all the facts people threw in the path of his lies.

Anonymous said...

Conrad Black (His Lardship) and his gruesome wife Barbara Amielticket (Morticia) are just suffering a big, big karma blowback. His Lardship renounced his Canadian citizenship as "uncompetitive" so that he could take a seat in the British House of Lards, an undemocratic and anachronistic institution, and now can't serve his sentence in Canada, where softer parole rules would have meant release about three years earlier than he will get out of Coleman.

He thought the USA was the cat's whiskers, the greatest place on earth, and even wanted to dissolve Canada and merge with the USA.

He thought he was sooooo-soooo smart, but then he went and stole FROM THE RICH in the USA.

Is there anything more stupid than that?

ROFL at the idiot.

Average Ho said...

OKAY THEN !!!!!!!!

I am off to UrAnus, about to get on the bus in whooville, will be lying to all of you real soon.

Average Joe's Dad with the big tax bill said...

I did it.I shot my own son because I couldn't take it anymore,we tried to help him.I'm sorry.

The Hollywood Mayor said...

I hear Real Estate will be back to 1952 prices by next year Average Joe!

The only problem... if they did, you still wouldn't buy because you'd be waiting for them to go down to 1935 prices!

You are laughable...

Anonymous said...

Girl At The Bar, please find an empty basket so we can pass it around and take up a collection for Average Joe's Dad's tax bill. It is the least we can do since he put Average Joe out of our misery.

Anonymous said...

Girl At The Bar, please find an empty basket so we can pass it around and take up a collection for Average Joe's Dad's tax bill. It is the least we can do since he put Average Joe out of our misery.

average joe said...

Ha Ha Ha

You people are stupid. I am commenting on the new story. I am so smart.